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How will the archive be found?
- Fawkes
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3 years 8 months ago #46
by Fawkes
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In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Fawkes created the topic: How will the archive be found?
So I've always wondered. Will there be anything in place that could help someone locate the lander in order to find the public/private archive?
I'm greatly looking forward to the completion of both the public archive and my private archive. But it seems to me that unless we assume people in 100, 500, 5000 years will be actively seeking the lander it may never be found. The moon after all is still a big place.
I'm sure it will eventually be stumbled across at some point but is there not something that could be done in order to attract someone to find it? Some of this sound a bit far fetched by we are talking 10 years time. Perhaps say some sort of short range signal the lander could send out every 50 or 100 years or so? I ask this because it would be a shame to allow generations to miss out on discovering the historic archives. Many time capsules are still undiscovered and maybe in another hundred years time capsules from 1900 may be discovered. It would be unfortunate as in that case our generation would miss out. The same could happen to LM1s time capsule except it could be hundreds or even thousands of years between it being found which would be a shame.
So in short should and could LM1 implement something to assist the finding of the time capsules? If so what? bearing in mind the launch is still 9-10 years away so there could be technologies we don't yet know of.
Who can think of the most imaginative answer?
It may be a bit early to be discussing this sort of thing but why not?
I'm greatly looking forward to the completion of both the public archive and my private archive. But it seems to me that unless we assume people in 100, 500, 5000 years will be actively seeking the lander it may never be found. The moon after all is still a big place.
I'm sure it will eventually be stumbled across at some point but is there not something that could be done in order to attract someone to find it? Some of this sound a bit far fetched by we are talking 10 years time. Perhaps say some sort of short range signal the lander could send out every 50 or 100 years or so? I ask this because it would be a shame to allow generations to miss out on discovering the historic archives. Many time capsules are still undiscovered and maybe in another hundred years time capsules from 1900 may be discovered. It would be unfortunate as in that case our generation would miss out. The same could happen to LM1s time capsule except it could be hundreds or even thousands of years between it being found which would be a shame.
So in short should and could LM1 implement something to assist the finding of the time capsules? If so what? bearing in mind the launch is still 9-10 years away so there could be technologies we don't yet know of.
Who can think of the most imaginative answer?
It may be a bit early to be discussing this sort of thing but why not?
fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fawkes
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
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3 years 8 months ago #58
by pebhidecs
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET
Systems Engineer
HIDECS Consultancy
pebhidecs replied the topic: How will the archive be found?
The usual, and obvious, choice would be a radio beacon which could transmit a short status burst at a present interval. Designing such a beacon is not too difficult. Making sure it could operate for a very long time is somewhat more tricky. Even electronic components can decay to the point of failure.
There may be passive ways of creating a beacon (perhaps using Lasers from Earth and a reflecting mirror). This would only work if the mirror was always guaranteed to face Earth at all times.
There are probably other solutions.
There may be passive ways of creating a beacon (perhaps using Lasers from Earth and a reflecting mirror). This would only work if the mirror was always guaranteed to face Earth at all times.
There are probably other solutions.
Paul E. Bennett IEng MIET
Systems Engineer
HIDECS Consultancy
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #60
by SteveC
I will do SCIENCE to it.
SteveC replied the topic: How will the archive be found?
Power could be supplemented with a solar panel, this would provide a constant stream of power as long as the panels remained intact.
Flipping the idea upside down a bit perhaps some kind of natural source of radiation could be used instead? Something alien to the moon with a long half life?
These may remove the problem of running out of power but probably replces it with others such as cost or destroying the archive with radiation.
/toungue in cheek - Or perhaps all we need is a giant fold-out a red X?
Flipping the idea upside down a bit perhaps some kind of natural source of radiation could be used instead? Something alien to the moon with a long half life?
These may remove the problem of running out of power but probably replces it with others such as cost or destroying the archive with radiation.
/toungue in cheek - Or perhaps all we need is a giant fold-out a red X?
I will do SCIENCE to it.
Last Edit: 3 years 8 months ago by SteveC.
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #61
by Fawkes
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In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Fawkes replied the topic: How will the archive be found?
I like the sound is lasers and mirrors. It would definitely sell LM1 to school kids. Radiation would be handy but yeah as you say it would probably cause damage.
Yeah I can bet there are a hundred solutions but each with their own drawback. I'm definitely no expert but it seems obvious the main problem is durability/longevity for such a thing. Will be interesting to discover the answer eventually if there is one.
Yeah I can bet there are a hundred solutions but each with their own drawback. I'm definitely no expert but it seems obvious the main problem is durability/longevity for such a thing. Will be interesting to discover the answer eventually if there is one.
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Last Edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Fawkes.
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3 years 8 months ago - 3 years 8 months ago #76
by Paul Conway
Paul Conway replied the topic: How will the archive be found?
Hi, we've discussed this over at the Kickstarter Forum and yes the idea of a beacon of some kind has
been mentioned.
The simple fact is...the Moon has very wide open spaces...so the lander will be fairly easy to locate and find.
I've discussed having 2 LCD/LED screens postioned on the lander on both sides with ports beneath each
so that if these data chips were one day recovered they could then be played back on the lander itself.
If the screens and/or ports were broken then they should be fair well advanced by then to be able to back date the
technology and make it work.
It would be nice to think of there being a domed museum built around this lander...and children from a future Earth
visiting for a day and seeing these video's playing on it.
Those that find this lander will clearly be able to see that there has been signs of drilling and will (you'd imagine)
investigate to see what it what this was..upon which they would find these Data Chips and put 2 & 2 togeather.
A beacon as a fail safe is not such a bad idea though but may not really be needed.
I do think the need to include these screens & chip ports makes a lot of sense and the screens could be
used to double up as SELFIE screens...a Camera positioned on the inside of the fold out solar panels or on a fold-out
arm could take pictures of this screen showing uploaded pictures of family and friends on the Moon with the Earth
in the Background...HOW COOL WOULD THIS BE?
Also if photographs could be uploaded from Earth? then this would see a constant income stream beyond the initial
mission...Imagine those new Baby shots then having it on the Moon...Cards could be made saying the likes of...
'This Baby is Out of this World'
I think I drove the other folks daft with this idea...but to me it makes sense? what do you folks think?
been mentioned.
The simple fact is...the Moon has very wide open spaces...so the lander will be fairly easy to locate and find.
I've discussed having 2 LCD/LED screens postioned on the lander on both sides with ports beneath each
so that if these data chips were one day recovered they could then be played back on the lander itself.
If the screens and/or ports were broken then they should be fair well advanced by then to be able to back date the
technology and make it work.
It would be nice to think of there being a domed museum built around this lander...and children from a future Earth
visiting for a day and seeing these video's playing on it.
Those that find this lander will clearly be able to see that there has been signs of drilling and will (you'd imagine)
investigate to see what it what this was..upon which they would find these Data Chips and put 2 & 2 togeather.
A beacon as a fail safe is not such a bad idea though but may not really be needed.
I do think the need to include these screens & chip ports makes a lot of sense and the screens could be
used to double up as SELFIE screens...a Camera positioned on the inside of the fold out solar panels or on a fold-out
arm could take pictures of this screen showing uploaded pictures of family and friends on the Moon with the Earth
in the Background...HOW COOL WOULD THIS BE?
Also if photographs could be uploaded from Earth? then this would see a constant income stream beyond the initial
mission...Imagine those new Baby shots then having it on the Moon...Cards could be made saying the likes of...
'This Baby is Out of this World'
I think I drove the other folks daft with this idea...but to me it makes sense? what do you folks think?
Last Edit: 3 years 8 months ago by Paul Conway.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Fawkes
- Fawkes
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3 years 8 months ago #118
by Fawkes
fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fawkes
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.
Fawkes replied the topic: How will the archive be found?
Yeah I thought about the idea of having even a touchscreen display to navigate through the archives in what could basically be a computer. BUT I imagine the big problem with this and screens in general are the weight and the electronics. I can't imagine such a thing would still function after centuries even on the moon. I can't imagine it being too practical either but you never know maybe something like that could be possible. Having its own interface would solve the problem of technology compatibility though. I mean I don't expect in the year 10100 they will have a spare USB cable handy..
The idea of uploading from Earth is nice it would be good to continue after the launch but in a way I think it would also be best left alone. Once its up there it will be a snapshot of all our archives from potentially millions from the years 2015-2025 (whenever the launch is.) It would be a bit like if a time capsule from 1900 was opened monthly for a few years to be updated with new information and then placed back again...defeats the point a bit. But I do see where your coming from.
The idea of uploading from Earth is nice it would be good to continue after the launch but in a way I think it would also be best left alone. Once its up there it will be a snapshot of all our archives from potentially millions from the years 2015-2025 (whenever the launch is.) It would be a bit like if a time capsule from 1900 was opened monthly for a few years to be updated with new information and then placed back again...defeats the point a bit. But I do see where your coming from.
fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fawkes
In all things, a calm heart must prevail.